tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.comments2022-04-26T03:58:59.299-05:00Slope SitterUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger100125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-67455292075390434262012-10-08T12:40:43.022-05:002012-10-08T12:40:43.022-05:00Hey Leesha, are you still out there? Haven't ...Hey Leesha, are you still out there? Haven't heard from you for a while. Are you OK?Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-66688543167135098862011-06-21T16:37:48.557-05:002011-06-21T16:37:48.557-05:00Wonderful words, friend. Thanks for your candor.
...Wonderful words, friend. Thanks for your candor.<br /><br />I find myself dealing with guilt over how I spoke to and treated other people before my world came crashing down in a major depressive episode. Like you said, it's easy to end up feeling like an ass. I have no choice but to take it to the cross.<br /><br />I never want to go back there and wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I am thankful of the things I learned and the shift it brought about it me.<br /><br />I'm far from perfect, but my perspective has definitely changed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12406227526040223067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-27801794546116293772011-06-20T01:50:02.971-05:002011-06-20T01:50:02.971-05:00The last year or so of my life has left me in the ...The last year or so of my life has left me in the position in which you find yourself now. Sometimes I even think of deleting every bit of my blog up until my mom's death. <br /><br />Humility is a precious thing. Blessings to you.Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-73801619937094527602011-03-02T23:20:22.117-06:002011-03-02T23:20:22.117-06:00Wow, I'm so sorry for all your losses. But I&#...Wow, I'm so sorry for all your losses. But I've been there, twice. I know the happiness you speak of as well. God is remarkably kind to us sinners.Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-59257228564495954502011-03-02T08:30:30.215-06:002011-03-02T08:30:30.215-06:00Finally getting to these comments... thanks, Mason...Finally getting to these comments... thanks, Mason and Dan! It helps so much to know other people can relate (Although, I'm sorry that you can relate so well... it stinks, doesn't it?) :-)<br /><br />Dan, I agree, this little corner of the blogosphere has been a huge lifeline for me. I always feel more sane after reading you all!E. A. H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02851254020566558895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-14741791295468318092011-01-25T18:20:36.121-06:002011-01-25T18:20:36.121-06:00Leesha, I sympathize/empathize/whatever the hell i...Leesha, I sympathize/empathize/whatever the hell it is when I've been where you are. The only thing I ever found that got me out of that combination of loathing and apathy was discovering a community (a very *small* community in my case) of people who actually had some of the same concerns and frustrations. Of course then I had to go and move across the country leaving them all behind...<br /><br />In some funny way, the little community of bloggers I met only virtually, has also been a lifeline in this respect. You, Jonathan, Mason, Kurt, have been an encouragement as well.<br /><br />For what it's worth, know that some of us in the wide wide world get it...Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-69152688921332081272011-01-07T10:02:26.053-06:002011-01-07T10:02:26.053-06:00Not to say it will necessarily pass, but I've ...Not to say it will necessarily pass, but I've certainly had my apathetic stretches and though some of it hangs on still during my best days I still have a passion for these things even if that looks different than it once did.<br /><br />For what it's worth, my spiritual journey sounds a lot like yours, and I think the apathy is almost a defense mechanism.<br /><br />What I mean by that is that what we believe is so central to our identity (particularly for certain personality types) that all the changes in beliefs are actually much more traumatic to our very being than we'd like to admit. In response we just stop caring to try and limit that feeling of chaos, at least for a season.<br /><br />Grace and peace as you wrestle with these transitions and thank you for sharing!Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12865044615971862266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-63298318777671258792010-07-05T12:13:41.749-05:002010-07-05T12:13:41.749-05:00{{hugs}} God bless and keep you as you sort throug...{{hugs}} God bless and keep you as you sort through these painful things...thank you for writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-78191545920871721942010-04-13T12:42:51.969-05:002010-04-13T12:42:51.969-05:00Yeah, I hate how churches manage to turn the party...Yeah, I hate how churches manage to turn the party of Resurrection Sunday into another lesson on penal-substitutionary atonement. It's "The Passion of the Christ" all over again...two hours of blood and gore with a tiny little coda that looks hopeful if you already know the story. BLECH!!!<br /><br />I didn't have the stomach to go see the Ragman based on your description (I don't need any more religious inspiration right now!) but I can say this: if we were living like the church, it would be us as believers giving that encouragement, that handholding, that weeping & rejoicing together, that you crave. What sucks is how the church has become a place you have to look "victorious" on your own steam or else you're suspect.<br /><br />Keep asking the questions...maybe some day someone who's actually close enough to look you in the eye, will hear them too! Till then, some of us distant friends hear you loud & clear!Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-90257282280131755982010-04-11T20:54:36.389-05:002010-04-11T20:54:36.389-05:00It's important to have an outlet, a safe place...It's important to have an outlet, a safe place to wrestle with these issues. <br /><br />I love the "rest of the story" that you wrote. Truth is, sometimes healing makes us outcasts ~ from family, from church, from friends. The man born blind, whom Jesus healed, was cast out. <br /><br />Keep wrestling and asking the hard questions. {{Hugs}}Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-46277327505512874062010-04-08T23:44:28.701-05:002010-04-08T23:44:28.701-05:00Amen and beautifully said! When I came to Christ I...Amen and beautifully said! When I came to Christ I had ideas at first that if I could be obedient at all times He would make things go my way...and in a sense He has, but not in the ways I thought. He works all things together for my good, all the bad things too. Which means, a lot of bad has come my way, all of which God uses for good. Sometimes He lets me see some of the good he's doing. Other times, well, it's like with Job, we won't understand it until eternity. (Oh, by the way, I've never succeeded in being only obedient. And that's why I need His grace every moment of every day.)Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-22111463714087610512010-04-08T22:26:27.460-05:002010-04-08T22:26:27.460-05:00Thanks Kurt! I guess I'm in the painful proce...Thanks Kurt! I guess I'm in the painful process of realizing grace in ALL areas of my life. I have been operating under the assumption that as a Christian, some areas of my life should... you know... just work out. Like a perk of the faith something. But no. EVERY area of my life needs His grace. I expected trials and struggles in certain areas of my life and was blindsided to find them in another. I felt (feel) like I had failed in some way. Ah, but this fallen world. Grace upon grace upon grace.E. A. H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02851254020566558895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-40808580870453790352010-03-31T15:17:47.421-05:002010-03-31T15:17:47.421-05:00I understand the cycle and tension you find yourse...I understand the cycle and tension you find yourself in. Effort... well, it can be a good thing, but so often it leads to the very exhausting cycle that we have been freed from! We are saved for good works... but such a mentality can easily be warped by whatever power or principality crosses our path. In such moments, i am trying to learn what it means to not become weary in doing good. Not all that easy though. Thanks for the authentic look at effort and faith and may God guide you as you discern and learn to embrace grace!Kurt Willemshttp://groansfromwithin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-79418539662680177672010-03-18T23:37:02.172-05:002010-03-18T23:37:02.172-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-42215426147783976492010-03-18T20:02:55.334-05:002010-03-18T20:02:55.334-05:00I'm with you. Between my grief over the state...I'm with you. Between my grief over the state of the Church and my ongoing struggle for mental health, it comes and goes. I know exactly what you mean, I think.jaignerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08341869496562567925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-62365829938496097952010-03-18T19:35:57.234-05:002010-03-18T19:35:57.234-05:00Recently heard in a sermon: "The Bible says i...Recently heard in a sermon: "The Bible says it, I believe it and that settles it."<br /><br />That may hold in some of the more salient cases, but I wonder if these people can recognize that there are other people who love and follow God, take the Bible seriously, and rely on the Holy Spirit. It's drawing a very dangerous line in the sand. It's saying "if you don't come to the same conclusion as me, you must not be listening to the Spirit."<br /><br />Of course, I'm ashamed to admit I was once that kind of person. But I moved from Waco, Texas to Wheaton, Illinois as a judgmental son-of-a-gun and moved back to Texas a totally changed person. So I need to have more grace for that mindset, even though it makes me want to puke.<br /><br />My beautiful and insightful wife once told me that "if the Bible didn't mean a certain thing to a certain people at a certain time, then it doesn't mean anything to anyone ever." At least she said something like that.<br /><br />Thanks.jaignerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08341869496562567925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-71780978508008876092010-03-18T19:29:49.050-05:002010-03-18T19:29:49.050-05:00I would agree that we can hear God speaking in a m...I would agree that we can hear God speaking in a multitude of ways. It can so easily become a cop-out. <br /><br />When applied to the non-essentials, it can often be a method of legalism and spiritual abuse. The implication is that you've got everything right and someone who thinks differently isn't listening to God or isn't "saved" or something.<br /><br />Good work.jaignerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08341869496562567925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-8709634508222129802010-03-11T16:59:33.613-06:002010-03-11T16:59:33.613-06:00Laurie, I think I've heard of that book before...Laurie, I think I've heard of that book before. I'll have to look into it. Thanks!<br /><br />Kurt, you are right that our "leadings" can become "cop-outs," and that's partly what fueled this post in the first place. And while I agree that we can hear from God, I venture to say that it may not be as often as some people claim. I have a friend who almost daily has a Facebook status of "I just felt the Lord telling me to do this..." or "I listened to this song, and God really spoke to me..." Now, maybe God DID speak to her, but if He's giving that much input, and she's hearing Him, understanding Him, and obeying Him as regularly and often as she makes it seem, one would expect her life to be exemplary and full of integrity. But I can't say I see much difference between her and the next Christian in terms of fruits. She just has more spiritual lingo.<br /><br />The other problem I've seen is that the "God told me" line is abused by pastors who act like they have a direct line from God while we peons in the congregation do not. This is true of famous, internationally known pastors, but it also can be very true of local pastors. I've known pastors who have split up churches and families because they had some "word from the Lord" and if you disagreed, they argued that you weren't disagreeing with them but with God Himself. Of course it was never over black and white issues that the Bible speaks to directly, so it was difficult to counteract with scripture. That's why I find it so troubling.E. A. H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02851254020566558895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-64357626913586599372010-03-09T00:35:33.351-06:002010-03-09T00:35:33.351-06:00good thoughts. Sometimes our "leadings"...good thoughts. Sometimes our "leadings" from the Lord can become cop-outs as well. Unfortunately, this has been an excuse that is pulled out from Christian college students that have commitment issues (which is most of them!). <br /><br />Nevertheless, I do think that we can hear from God. We have to discern the way that God speaks to us that is unique to each person. Some hear God through prayer. Through bible study. Through service. Through conversation with others. Through mental pictures. Through prophetic word. Etc... <br /><br />Even so feelings that are filtered through perceptions... rather than a mature awareness of the presence of the holy spirit can be shaky...<br /><br />Thanks!Kurt Willemshttp://groansfromwithin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-17555942276466695132010-03-06T02:14:49.061-06:002010-03-06T02:14:49.061-06:00Wise words.
I take great comfort in the knowledg...Wise words. <br />I take great comfort in the knowledge that God is sovereign even over our less than perfect decisions and works them all together for our good (Rom. 8:28). <br />I have a great little book on my desk called "Just Do Something", by DeYoung, which I found very helpful in this regard.Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-24947103637484009572010-03-01T10:52:48.086-06:002010-03-01T10:52:48.086-06:00Well, it depends partly on what you mean by "...Well, it depends partly on what you mean by "without error," too. The VPE crowd means every little throwaway phrase is literally true (the way THEY interpret it, of course) unless it's one of the ones THEY identify as symbolic. This is why a comment that occurs without explanation only twice (reigning for 1000 years) becomes the foundation for a whole "millenial" theology, for example. Of course, Jesus didn't mean we should literally love our enemies 'cause you can't love people who "hate our way of life," right? Or at least if we love them it's just because if they got "saved" they would not be our enemies any more. . .well, you know!<br /><br />But if we accept these two propositions:<br /><br />1) Application of the term "word of God" to the canon is extrabiblical and not what God ever intended; and<br /><br />2) Given a more limited view of the canon, it was not an error to include the writings that were included;<br /><br />then "without error" takes on a different connotation entirely. It's still not a phrase I choose to use, because I think the best it can do is muddy the waters, and it is unnecessary to my theology. As I've written before, I choose to characterize the Bible as a faithful witness to the words and works of Jesus and the Father as they have interacted with humanity. As such, it is the "final authority for faith and practice" within the context of the community of believers. For me, that's enough.<br /><br />Come to think of it, I don't know that I ever summarized it that well on my own blog series. I should do that. . .Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-56424655294961692592010-03-01T08:44:03.065-06:002010-03-01T08:44:03.065-06:00Laurie- Thanks for stopping by! I am very glad t...Laurie- Thanks for stopping by! I am very glad to have come across your blog as well. :-)<br /><br />Dan- I'm going to admit that I throw the "without error in the original autographs" terminology around myself, but you raise a very good point that it is a dressed-up version of the same theology. I've used it because it's an easy way to say, "Look, I know our English translation has some major issues and shortcomings, but I think the Bible is really, really, important... so here's how we get around that..." Now I'm going to have to rethink that approach!E. A. H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02851254020566558895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-70487001337292843042010-02-26T16:47:21.849-06:002010-02-26T16:47:21.849-06:00I really enjoyed this post. From your profile, we...I really enjoyed this post. From your profile, well, we seem to look at things very similarly. I look forward to reading your thoughts in the future.Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-69115599124497458692010-02-26T16:27:38.709-06:002010-02-26T16:27:38.709-06:00And Jonathan, it's not just the KJVers, though...And Jonathan, it's not just the KJVers, though they're part of it. In my circles they've gravitated to ESV, which is a version I also like reasonably well even though I don't hold to their theology.<br /><br />The buzzword in our group is that the inspired Bible was "without error in the original autographs," which permits them to allow for limited textual analysis while preserving the essential nature of Verbal-Plenary Inspiration as a doctrine. Different wineskins, but same basic wine.Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8986634090859680345.post-26443989288571539222010-02-26T16:25:08.740-06:002010-02-26T16:25:08.740-06:00Whatever it is, it certainly doesn't like to b...<i>Whatever it is, it certainly doesn't like to be pinned down.</i><br /><br />I like that, Leesha! True of the Bible, true also of God himself!Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.com